Very confusing situation with Payliance as CA for Curves

[bifflez]

First off, I apologize if this is long and confusing, but it's hard to explain something that's completely foreign to me. I'll try to make this chronological so it reads like less of a mess.

Ok, sometime late 2004, I did a 12 month check draft with Curves Fitness. I'm not entirely sure of the exact date because it was ages ago, with a lot of fiasco in between the years, and the Curves that I signed up with was one of the franchises that closed around 2009.

I am aware that the basic foundation in any Curves 12 month contract though is that you need to cancel membership after the 12 months is up, or they'll continue with check drafts. Well, after doing the rough math, 12 months after the contract I was in basic training and AIT (school for my job) for the US Army. I'm not sure if anyone else is familiar, but during TRADOC (Army's acronym for training period) you have barely any means of communication, especially in basic training--which I was in until Sept. 2005. I'm not sure if this is a viable excuse for not sending notification of ending the check drafts. Not to mention, Curves was the last thing on my mind during that period and entirely forgotten.

Today, I finally get the nerve to check my credit report for the first time, since fear of unpaid medical bills made me reluctant. In all actuality, I was pleasantly surprised, but a report by Payliance four times on behalf of Curves grabbed my attention. The original dates were for March, April, May, and June of 2006. Although, Payliance has conveniently bumped up the activity date to list the year reported as 2009.

I called Payliance today (and cleverly did not admit guilt, just ignorance and no understanding of why it's on my account four times and contract should have been over with Curves). They, of course, did not provide enlightenment of the situation. I asked them if they had the original contract agreement I signed with Curves and could tell me the start date of the 12 month agreement. They said they did not. They told me the only information they had was for the delinquent electronic check drafts. I asked them to send me some kind of written information or billing statement on what they had, and the lady told me that now it's under an attorney and they couldn't. They said if I settled with them, it would be cheaper than sending a written notice, because sending written information would incur legal fees added to the debt total. I told them I would call Curves directly and determine the specifics so I had at least an inkling of what's going on, and I hung up.

Well, when I'm looking up the contact information, the Curves location I signed up with is listed as closed business on Google Maps. I went the Curves website and tried to locate the Curves I went to by the zip code. When it wasn't listed, it confirmed that this Curves franchise is no longer open.

Since Payliance is listed as the CA on my CR, but it's actually in the hands of an attorney, does this discrepancy call means for a dispute? Does the fact of me being in basic training/AIT hold up as an excuse to not send notice to Curves to end the contract? Does it also hold up as an excuse to not send a change of address to the creditors/CA and not being able to seen an actual notice from the CA? Since the Curves franchise who's my OC is closed, would I benefit from trying to send a validation to the OC because they probably wouldn't respond with any information?

Thanks for all the help in advance. I know it's kind of a complex issue, and I'm just trying to determine the validity of this debt. I paid off my overdue cell phone bills without question because I knew it was valid, but this situation is just sketchy all around and makes me reluctant.

[Hal Jordan]

It's not that complex. First things first. That whole requesting written notice incurs legal fees is a crock of sh1T!. And of course they want you to just pay it without disputing it.. blah blah blah.

They're debt collectors girl! Known for lying, swindling and telling you whatever they can to get you to pay them.

What state are you in? How much is the debt? You need to send them a Debt Validation letter. If Your state has a 5 year sol it expired on this debt in March. That's the date of your last delinquency so that's the date the clock starts from.

I would not mess around with phone calls with them. Who gives a flying rats rear end if it's with an attorney. Especially if it is outside the SOL.

In the DV letter you send make sure one of the things you include in your request is proof that this thing is still within the Statute of Limitations.

Technically all they have to provide you with is the name of the creditor and the amount owed but ask for all that stuff anyway just on the chance they may give it to you or realize they are dealing with someone who is going to fight them and not just pay because it's with a lawyer now :rolleyes:

DV those bastards and dispute with the CRA's. Don't let them intimidate you with their B.S.

[bifflez]

Yeah, the whole "attorney fees would be included with anything written" struck me as sketchy, and I knew something was up. I disputed the charges on Experian (the only CRA that's reporting this debt out of the 3 bureaus), and they were validated, so that told me that Payliance being the owner of the debt is valid. I mean, should I make them send me something in writing and then nab them for lying about an attorney?

I'm currently in Missouri, but the Curves was in Tennessee, so I'm sure it would follow Tennessee's SOL. Tennessee's SOL is six years, and that makes sense since Experian had the date of removal for March 2012. The debt is only $248 for four failed ACH drafts of $62 each because I CLOSED that bank account when I moved from Tennessee. Only thing I don't get, why are they so stupid as to keep drafting my account for four months when the bank account is closed? They knew it was closed, because the lady from Payliance told me on the phone that the bank account had been closed when they tried to do the check draft. I dunno about anyone else, but that seems like a big DUH to me.

I just honestly feel like I have a legitimate excuse for not catching this or not sending cancellation notice to Curves. However, I'm not certain it's a legally legitimate excuse.

Since the SOL is up in March 2012, should I just say screw it and wait instead taking the risk of sending a DV letter when it's still in the SOL for only another year? It's only a year, but these people are dirty. They listed a different account number for each NSF check so it appeared on my Experian CR four times. Sneak bastards.

And I guess I'm kind of at a loss for getting a copy of the contract I signed since the Curves franchise I dealt with is closed, right? I guess in theory it seems like a great opportunity for the 623 dispute method, but that would be kinda difficult if I have no one to send it to. I do have the Curves' owner's name from BBB, but no address. The whole Curves franchising just compounds the problem when my franchise has closed, and I have no one to go to as far as an OC is concerned. I've read that their corporate isn't much help since the locations are franchised.

[Hal Jordan]

Well.. In Missouri your SOL is 10 years. And it goes by the state you live in.. not the State that the OC is in. Most states are 5 or 6 yrs. You just happen to be unlucky enough to live in Missouri.

The seven years or the date it falls off of your credit report is not the date it goes beyond the SOL. The good news is that it will fall off of your report.

The 623 to Curves is still a good idea but I'm not sure they still own it. Sounds like Payalliance may own it. If so send the DV letter. No matter what send the DV letter to payalliance.

A CA can and often does have attorneys they keep contracted to sue people. But in your case I really wouldn't sweat it too much at this point as it's not a whole lot of money and maybe not enough to even bother suing you over. Not to mention the OC is out of business and it's HIGHLY unlikely that Curves has any info about your old membership. And if you did get sued as long as you showed up so they didn't get a default judgement against you.

I recommend your first step as sending the DV letter to the CA. Go ahead and Send the 623 to curves also. You will probably get nothing back from curves but send it anyway in case you do get something saying we have no record. That should be enough to negate what the CA says. Oh, and don't talk to the CA on the phone anymore.

[Lian]

My take on the situation.

I would start by determining the DOFD on the OC account. That determines your CR drop-off date, and is also the starting point for determining expiration of your SOL. I don't know the statutory period for commencement of the SOL in your state, or if it provides for reset based on last date of payment, but I would check that out.

As far as DV'ing the debt collector at this point, a DV would probably be untimely. You can send it, but if it has been more than 30-days since they sent you dunning notice, it has no legal weight to compel any verification or cessation of their collection activity.

The most fruitful course, in my opinion, might be the direct dispute process. Who you can file your 623(a)(8) dispute with depends on who has posted to your CR, for your dispute is directed to the accuracy of their reporting.

If the OC never posted to your CR, you have no basis for disputing anything with them.

Since the debt collector has reported to your CR, you can file a direct dispute with them. My question is what are the grounds for disputing their reporting of a collection on what is apparently a legitimate debt? If they were assigned collection authority by the OC, even though the OC is now defunct, that does not render their authority at the time to have been inaccurate. They most likely have documents showing their assignment of collection authority, and when the OC went belly-up, the debt was passed on to someone. So I doubt that it just evaporated. I am kinda hard pressed to conjure up any supporting documentation to show that their reporting was inaccurate. I would suspect that they have documentation to support that it was. And they don't have to provide that documentation when investigating your dispute. All they have to do is to state that they verify the accuracy of their reporting.

[Hal Jordan]

Lian is a sharp guy and definitely knows his stuff.. However, if you want it removed you should still try and dispute it. It's easy to read what he just wrote as. Don't DV, it won't get you anywhere. You can 623 but it's accurate so it should be left on there and if you actually do a 623 they probably have the proof anyway so it would not be worth trying.

Trying and failing has the exact same result as not doing anything and failing. Atleast if you try you have a chance that they will get your DV letter and delete it (slim chance but still a chance). It will also let you know who owns the debt and who you can work with to try and get it removed. A puncher's chance is still a chance..

All it will take to challange this thing is to write the DV and 623 and to pay the postage and a little time. IMO it's always worth trying to fight it.. I've had stuff I thought no way could I get removed that is gone now...

And lets be honest here... A good percentage of these debts we know are legitimate but regardless of that we still want them gone or removed and all we're doing is trying to find a way to get rid of them.. Is it the most ethical thing in the world to do? Probably not, but the whole system is slated against us and is already so unethical that I have no problem doing what is necessary to beat a collection agency. They wouldn't have any issues about trying to trick you into making a $5 payment (in good faith) to bring something out of the SOL so they could sue you and do it all under the veil of trying to work with you to get rid of a debt. Offering you one hand while using the other to slip a dagger in your back.

[mwhite1988]

hi,

i did a google search of "payliance on credit report" and almost got chills when i read your story. I'm currently looking to get a mortgage on a home and decided to look at my credit score. I have 4 items from payliance because of Curves!!! they are each for $64 for 8/07, 9/07, 10/07, and finally 11/07. Each for $64. When i called payliance and the lady looked up my name, she then went into the "this is an attempt to collect a dept and all information" and I had to stop her! I told her I'm calling because Curves and my BANK both verified today that it's paid (?!?). She stated that a "call" from a Curves manager would get this removed by this Friday on my report. Why is something that's apparently been screwing up my credit for so long suddenly solvable by a PHONE CALL. Go figure, I call Curves and they said that stuff from 2007 is in the "paper archives" and they will dig it up for me! I really think we should stay in touch because if you and I, at minimum, are victim here, this smells like a LAWSUIT. I'm going to put my email on here with some (( symbols in between.
michelle (( white (( 1988@ (( hotmail.com

please feel free to email me because I'm so glad I found someone going through the same WEIRD situation!!!