"Validation"

[WashingtonMommy]

So i got my "validation" today Enclosed please find an account statement prepared with the information provided to us by the prior creditor this statement is provided in response to your request for validation.
All it is is a piece of paper that says debt validation on the top states the original creditor & address, date opened, last payment, interest rate balance principal, fees, personal information with my name, address, & partial ssn #. Then of course at the bottom "please make payment to...."

Is this proper validation? I did ask for something with my signature on it for the account and they did not send it, in fact they did not send a lot of the information I asked for.

[Hal Jordan]

That is indeed proper validation. That is even more than what is required by law to verify a debt.

FDCPA Section 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

I can't remember which debts you're trying to get rid of. This isn't the tanning salon one is it?

Anyway, They have validated the debt. Next options are these.. 1: Do nothing and wait for the SOL to expire and hope they don't sue you (depending on the amount like if it's relatively small this may be a viable option). 2: Try to negotiate a PFD with them for either the full or reduced amount (usually if it's still in the SOL you will need to do real close to or the full amount to get this). 3: File suit against them but be aware if they do have access to something signed by you or you mess up in court they will probalby win and typically what they do is file a counter claim against you for the full amount plus court costs, attorney fees and applicable interest and charges associated with the collection.

How much is this debt we're talking about?

On the surface I'd say a PFD may be your best option to go for here..

[WashingtonMommy]

No, this wasn't from the tanning salon. This was for credit cards. 4 of them actually. Companies gave me a lot of credit cards when I was i school and I had no job, I had no problem making the payments for a long time until i got too many and got over my head. I asked them to send the followin and they didn't send any of it, does that mean it is still validated?

-Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants (Collection Agency Name) the authority to collect this alleged debt.
-Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector.
-Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor.
Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open.

The last date of activity on them all was early 2007, past the SOL for my state but still a few years till they fall off.

[WashingtonMommy]

Sorry I forgot to mention the total for all 4 is around $2500

[Hal Jordan]

The debts have been validated. Asking for a copy of signed contract or something bearing your sig for debt validation is well and good and sometimes they do provide it.. but it's not necessary for validation. Like I highlighted about all they really need to provide is the amount and the Name and address of the OC. You can ask for an accounting of how the debt was arrived to the penny but you may not get it and that still is not a violation of the FDCPA. You would have to be in a law suit with them and ask/compel for them to provide you with that information in a disclosure request. You are entitled to that information and if they can't or won't provide it you ask the judge for a dismissal.. way too long of a process for me to get into in one quick little answer and I'm not a lawyer so there are others who are way more qualified to answer the specifics on that than me so I won't delve into that other than on a superficial respsonse.

WRT to them being credit cards. If they can get statements from the CC companies they don't need your sig as use of the card (and statements prove this) works the same as a signed contract.

If they are beyond the SOL you could try writing them an SOL letter and see where it gets you. It may work. But like I told you in another thread they can sue you regardless of wheither or not the debt is inside the SOL. It's your responsability to ask the judge to dismiss the case based on it being SOL. And lots of CA's sue for debt outside of SOL's because they get a TON of default judgements on debts that are beyond the SOL because the average lay person doesn't know or doesn't understand the law or just don't show up and lose that way.

So the same CA owns all 4 credit card debts? Are they reporting the debt one at a time or all lumped together?

The trick here doesn't sound like avoiding getting sued. That seems apparent by the SOL defense if all of them are beyond the SOL like you say. The trick is getting them to stop reporting it. An SOL letter with ITS language may work or they may call your bluff and keep on reporting anyway for the next couple of years in an effort to get you to pay for removal.

PFD is also a pretty good way to get things beyond the SOL removed from your CR. If you word your letter right and reference the fact they won't get anything if they don't remove the tradelines because they are too far beyond your state's laws to win a judgement they may be more inclined to take 50% for a deletion.

Originally Posted by WashingtonMommy

No, this wasn't from the tanning salon. This was for credit cards. 4 of them actually. Companies gave me a lot of credit cards when I was i school and I had no job, I had no problem making the payments for a long time until i got too many and got over my head. I asked them to send the followin and they didn't send any of it, does that mean it is still validated?

-Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants (Collection Agency Name) the authority to collect this alleged debt.
-Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector.
-Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor.
Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open.

The last date of activity on them all was early 2007, past the SOL for my state but still a few years till they fall off.

[WashingtonMommy]

they are reporting them all separately. Do you know where I can find some exaple SOL letters, I can't fnd any on here. I will try that then if that does not work I will try the PFD. I know they can still try to take me to court, but I know the SOL here is 6 years on a written account with exception of credit cards which are considered open ended accounts here with a SOL of 3 years. One was my ver first cc, from Capital one .

[Hal Jordan]

Hold on a sec.. Make sure they are considered open ended accounts. Most of the time CC companies or collections for CC file suit as a contract which probably mean 6 years in your state. Not saying this is for sure.. just double check.

[WashingtonMommy]

I had been looking for more detail about the laws and what makes Washington consider a cc an open ended account, because I wasworried about SOL for these. I had read on so many posts through my google searches tha it is 3 years and considered an open account but I had seen nothing to back this up, until recently, here is what I found on a post. Although I do not understand it too well, I'm still trying to work through it... maybe you understand better.

Reason Credit Card SoL is 3 years:

Limit is 3 Years:
(Contracts not in writing or not from a contract in writing limited to 3 years.)
RCW 4.16.080 - Actions limited to three years.

The following actions shall be commenced within three years:

(3) Except as provided in RCW 4.16.040(2), an action upon a contract or liability, express or implied, which is not in writing, and does not arise out of any written instrument;
Cite: RCW 4.16.080(3)


Credit Cards/Open Accounts Statute of Limitations
(Listed in an order that is easy to follow, not sequentially, as written .)

RCW 62A.3-118 - Statute of limitations.

(g) Unless governed by other law regarding claims for indemnity or contribution, an action

(iii) to enforce an obligation, duty, or right arising under this Article and not governed by this section must be commenced within three years after the cause of action accrues.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (e), an action to enforce the obligation of a party to pay a note payable at a definite time must be commenced within six years after the due date or dates stated in the note or, if a due date is accelerated, within six years after the accelerated due date.
Cite: RCW 62A.3-118(a),(g)(iii)


“Written Contract� Exemption for Credit Cards
(Definition of written contract doesn’t apply to credit cards.)
RCW 19.36.120 - Exempt agreements.

RCW 19.36.100 through 19.36.140 and 19.36.900 shall not apply to:

(1) A promise, agreement, undertaking, document, or commitment relating to a credit card or charge card; or

(2) a loan of money or extension of credit to a natural person that is primarily for personal, family, or household purposes and not primarily for investment, business, agricultural, or commercial purposes.
Cite: RCW 19.36.120(1),(2)


Credit Cards Are Not Contracts
(Definition of Credit Card is “Agreement�, not “Contract".)
RCW 62A.9A-102
(a) Article 9A definitions. In this Article:

(2)(A) "Account," except as used in "account for," means a right to payment of a monetary obligation, whether or not earned by performance,

(vii) arising out of the use of a credit or charge card or information contained on or for use with the card,

(47) "Instrument" means a negotiable instrument or any other writing that evidences a right to the payment of a monetary obligation, is not itself a security agreement or lease, and is of a type that in ordinary course of business is transferred by delivery with any necessary endorsement or assignment. The term does not include

© writings that evidence a right to payment arising out of the use of a credit or charge card or information contained on or for use with the card,
Cite: RCW 62A.9A-102(a)(2)(A)(vii),(47)©


Definition of Credit Cards and Types of Agreements
(Definitions current until 7/1/11 when SB 6379 takes effect.)
RCW 63.14.010 - Retail installment sales of goods and services – Definitions

In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

(2) "Goods" means all chattels personal when purchased primarily for personal, family, or household use and not for commercial or business use, but not including money or, except as provided in the next sentence, things in action. The term includes but is not limited to merchandise certificates or coupons, issued by a retail seller, to be used in their face amount in lieu of cash in exchange for goods or services sold by such a seller and goods which, at the time of sale or subsequently, are to be so affixed to real property as to become a part thereof, whether or not severable therefrom;

(3) "Lender credit card" means a card or device under a lender credit card agreement pursuant to which the issuer gives to a cardholder residing in this state the privilege of obtaining credit from the issuer or other persons in purchasing or leasing property or services, obtaining loans, or otherwise, and the issuer of which is not: (a) Principally engaged in the business of selling goods; or ( a financial institution;

(4) "Lender credit card agreement" means an agreement entered into or performed in this state prescribing the terms of retail installment transactions pursuant to which the issuer may, with the buyer's consent, purchase or acquire one or more retail sellers' indebtedness of the buyer under a sales slip or memorandum evidencing the purchase, lease, loan, or otherwise to be paid in accordance with the agreement. The issuer of a lender credit card agreement shall not be principally engaged in the business of selling goods or be a financial institution;

(6) "Bank credit card plan" means a credit card plan in which the issuer of credit cards is a national bank, state bank, trust company or any other banking institution subject to the supervision of the director of financial institutions of this state or any parent or subsidiary of such bank.

(10) "Retail charge agreement," "revolving charge agreement," or "charge agreement" means an agreement between a retail buyer and a retail seller that is entered into or performed in this state and that prescribes the terms of retail installment transactions with one or more sellers which may be made thereunder from time to time and under the terms of which a service charge, as defined in this section, is to be computed in relation to the buyer's unpaid balance from time to time;

(11) "Retail installment contract" or "contract" means a contract, other than a retail charge agreement, a lender credit card agreement, or an instrument reflecting a sale made pursuant thereto, entered into or performed in this state for a retail installment transaction. The term "retail installment contract" may include a chattel mortgage, a conditional sale contract, and a contract in the form of a bailment or a lease if the bailee or lessee contracts to pay as compensation for their use a sum substantially equivalent to or in excess of the value of the goods sold and if it is agreed that the bailee or lessee is bound to become, or for no other or a merely nominal consideration, has the option of becoming the owner of the goods upon full compliance with the provisions of the bailment or lease. The term "retail installment contract" does not include: (a) A "consumer lease," heretofore or hereafter entered into, as defined in RCW 63.10.020; ( a lease which would constitute such "consumer lease" but for the fact that: (i) It was entered into before April 29, 1983; (ii) the lessee was not a natural person; (iii) the lease was not primarily for personal, family, or household purposes; or (iv) the total contractual obligations exceeded twenty-five thousand dollars; or © a lease-purchase agreement under chapter 63.19 RCW;
Cite: RCW 63.14.010(2),(3),(4),(6),(10),(11)



MISCELLANEOUS

RCW 62A.4-111 - Statute of Limitations.
An action to enforce an obligation, duty, or right arising under this Article must be commenced within three years after the cause of action accrues.

RCW 4.16.270 - Effect of partial payment.
When any payment of principal or interest has been or shall be made upon any existing contract, whether it be a bill of exchange, promissory note, bond or other evidence of indebtedness, if such payment be made after the same shall have become due, the limitation shall commence from the time the last payment was made.

WAC 162-40-021 - Coordination with Federal Law.
(1) It is the policy of the commission to coordinate its enforcement of the Washington state law against discrimination with enforcement of the federal Equal Credit Opportunity Act, Pub. L. 93-495, as amended, and Regulation B Equal Credit Opportunity 12 CFR 202, to the maximum extent possible without diminishing the impact of the state law where the statutes differ. Federal law alters, affects or preempts only those regulations contained in this chapter which are inconsistent with federal law, and then only to the extent of the inconsistency.

(2) Differences between state and federal regulations. The state of Washington is a community property state; therefore, regulations governing community property may define the differences between the federal and state regulations.

WAC 162-40-041 Credit Transactions
(10) "Credit card" means any card, plate, coupon book, or other single credit device that may be used from time to time to obtain money, property, or services on credit.

(17) "Open end credit" means credit extended under a plan in which a creditor may permit an applicant to make purchases or obtain loans from time to time directly from the creditor or indirectly by use of a credit card, check, or other device. The term does not include negotiated advances under an open end real estate mortgage or letter of credit

[Hal Jordan]

everything you wrote looks accurate. I think you have a leg to stand on with the 3 year sol being applicable.

WRT to your SOL letter.. try this one.

Name
Address

CA
Address

Date
Certified Mail No: _____________

Re: Account # _____________________

Greetings:

Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed.

The Rules of Civil Procedure for the State of (state) provide a Statute Of Limitations limiting the time frame for any legal collection activities.

Please be advised that under the TILA section 15 a credit card account is legally defined as an "open" account. The Act is in Title I of the Consumer Credit Protection Act and is implemented by the Federal Reserve Board via Regulation Z (12 C.F.R. Part 226). (This paragraph is to be included for credit cards)

Under the State of ________ Code § __________ the subject account has a _________ year limit for filing any legal action for collection.

The starting date of the statute of limitations is as follows:
The later of the date of last activity, or the date of first default with the ORIGINAL CREDITOR of the subject account.

Records indicate that the date in question for account #___________ with (creditor) is ___________.

This notification is formal notice to you that any filing of such action by you, or your representatives or assignees, is therefore time-barred.

Under the FDCPA, any such action, or threat of such action is a violation of the law, and grounds for fines and civil sanctions.

807. False or misleading representations

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt.
Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2) The false representation of-

(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action.

(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

This notification to you is of applicable legal statutes, codes and laws. Other Federal and State laws may apply as well.

(Include this paragraph when appropriate)

Under the laws of the State of (state), (statute #) continued collection activities, including reporting, verification or reinsertion of accounts beyond their legal collection date to any consumer credit reporting agency, may be considered extortion and/or fraud and subject to criminal as well as civil prosecution.

Please note that proof of your receipt of this notice may be used by me or my legal representative in further action.

I also reserve the right to forward a copy of this letter, and any other pertinent material to the _____ (CA lawyer's State) Bar Association.

Best regards,

Name

[Hal Jordan]

The point is to look like a sue happy nut job...